Q and A: Greg Ginn (Black Flag)

By BRIAN GIFFIN

US HARDCORE legends Black Flag will be returning to Australia again this month for a four-date east coast tour. Their last visit was in 2023 when the band appeared at Dark Mofo in Hobart before returning for a full run of shows. Since then, founder and only constant member, guitarist Greg Ginn, has put together a completely new line-up of Black Flag featuring musicians who are all younger than the band’s first album. After sorting out some hassles with the technology, we finally got Ginn on Zoom and talked about Vegemite, the constant changing nature of his band and their lasting impact.

Hot Metal: Black Flag is coming back to Australia. It’s been a little while.

Greg Ginn: “Yes. I’m looking forward to it. It’s a long flight. It’s a long ways to go, but it’s beautiful over there and I’m looking forward to it.” 

HM: How has the latest line-up of Black Flag been received?

GG: “Oh, great! Really great. We’ve been touring a lot in the last year. I love it and it seems like everyone else does too. So it’s really good.”

HM: When you brought Max into the band, apparently people didn’t realise you now had a female singer. Is that right?

GG: “Well pictures came out pretty quick. So they found out pretty quick!”

HM: It doesn’t really matter though, does it? You could have had a female singer before, and possibly no one would have cared all that much.

GG: “Well I certainly wouldn’t have cared. It’s great. It just depends on the person, of course. She’s a great singer, and male or female it just doesn’t really matter.”

HM: On this tour, you’re doing two sets per show.

GG: “Yeah. We like to play as much as time allots. Usually we do two sets that are about 50 or 55 minutes each and have a 15 minute break in between. To let people get a drink, or whatever, and for us to meet people, and break it up a little bit. Because it is quite an onslaught.”

HM: One set of Black Flag would be enough for some people!

GG: “I think the first 30 seconds would be too much for a lot of people!”

HM: Oh yeah, probably! I’ve got to admit that back in the eighties when I was first starting to get into metal and punk and stuff like that, Black Flag was a little bit too much for me! It took me a while to really get into the intensity of the music. I love it now, but back then it was way over my head. It was a bit above my pay grade, back then.

GG: (laughs) “Your pay grade must have been very low!” 

HM: It wasn’t very high, I’ve got to admit! Now, what is it about Black Flag? Your music is just as relevant and thought-provoking now as it ever was. You’re a band that existed in the wake of Nixon and through the Reagan era and yet your music and message is just as powerful as it was then.

GG: “I think it has to do with: our songs aren’t really about current things. They’re more about people, real people, feelings, real incidents and that kind of thing. Almost all of them are that way. I don’t really seem them as locked into a certain time. Everything happens as part of the context of its time, but a lot of younger people really like the songs and get something out of them, and I don’t really see a difference there. Some music is about its period, whatever that might be, but that’s not something we’ve really pursued.”

HM: It’s been a lot about personal experiences and positive messaging, just presenting yourself and your music to the “every man” in the audience. That never seems to go away and people will come away with a more positive outlook from listening to your music. But some may miss that, I think, in the way that Black Flag’s music has been represented.

GG: “Oh yeah, and I can see that, because on the surface, it has a very aggressive sound. But to me playing music, especially high energy music, is very cathartic. Some people think that promotes anger, but I think it relieves it. It’s an outlet for things. I agree with you, I think it’s very positive, but I can see why people, just looking at the surface, would think, “Oh these guys are angry!” or something. I don’t buy that.”

HM: Last time you were here with a different band to the line-up you have now. What are you expecting the reaction to be on this tour?

GG: “Well, it’s my favourite version of the band. Absolutely great people I’m playing with. The bass player, drummer, singer are all amazing. David Rodriguez on bass, Bryce Weston on drums and Max [Zanelly] on vocals, of course. It’s just a lot of fun, the most fun I’ve ever had playing with Black Flag, and I think the best… I think it’s the best the band has been. And I’m really enjoying that.”

HM: Well, there has been a lot of Black Flags, so for you to be saying that, after all this time, do you think you’ve finally found the version of the band you’ve been looking for all this time?

GG: “Yeah, in a lot of ways. But I don’t want to criticise or downplay the participation of everybody else, because that was probably the best at that time. I always try to do the best, but also I’ve learned more about – and I don’t mean music theory – but I learned more about the various instruments so I’ve just got to say I’m really enjoying.”

HM: Do you ever feel disappointed that there’s people who only seem to really like one version of the band? They say like Black Flag, but only like Damaged, or In My Head. How do you feel about that?

GG: “I don’t care. I’ve always tried to make different albums, and that’s not always the best way to please people. Sometimes you find your script and you stick to it. A lot of bands are successful at that, but I’ve looked at all the different albums and people have different favourite ones. But I look at it as just adding to the spectrum of making another album, rather than repeating it. It makes sense that people gravitate to one and not the other, and a lot of times they gravitate to one and then another, and in a way catching up to it. I certainly find that now, with a lot of the music. People have come to appreciate it more as it’s come to be out there. It’s certainly natural. There’s bands I like that I only like one album.” 

HM: Having a constantly changing style makes it hard to really pigeonhole what Black Flag does. Does that make it hard to describe what your band does to someone who maybe isn’t that familiar with Black Flag? You can’t really point to a particular album and say, “Well, we sound like this – but we also sound like this!” People don’t really have a touchstone.

GG: “Yeah, that definitely happens. That’s OK!” 

HM: It would be difficult for you too, I suppose, to be just playing the stuff you were playing when you just started out. You’ve changed yourself over that time, too, and you’ve got your influences and as you’ve said, you’ve learned a lot more about music.

GG: “And I wouldn’t do it otherwise. My music comes from improvising and I always like to play new stuff. I do a lot of recording and a lot of instrumental stuff. I enjoy that. If I made Corn Flakes, I would be bored after a while of, “OK, you take the grain, then roast it…” I don’t know how they make them! “And it’s gotta be the same because the customer wants to have the same Corn Flakes for 70 years in a row.” The first week, I’d be, “Oh cool! I’m making Corn Flakes!” I think I would… I don’t know. I think it’s the same if I was making Vegemite. I’m looking forward to having Vegemite again.”

HM: You are?

GG: “I’m looking forward to it! It’s hard to find here. It’s very rare.”

HM: So you enjoy it?

GG: “Yes, I do! Vegemite sandwiches. I enjoy it.”

HM: It is very difficult to find in America, and it’s also very difficult to find Americans who enjoy it. But I can name one, now!

GG: “It has a very yeasty taste! Do you like it?”

HM: I do! And it’s made out of leftover brewer’s yeast! 

GG: “So it has a lot of B vitamins in it. Yeah, I like it and I’m looking forward to it! Now you’re making me hungry!”

AN EVENING WITH BLACK FLAG

MAY 28: Corner Hotel, Melbourne
MAY 29: Crowbar, Sydney
MAY 30: Crowbar, Brisbane
MAY 31: Vinnies Dive Bar, Gold Coast

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