by PAUL SOUTHWELL
CRADLE of Filth often intentionally courted controversy in their early days. Whether via confrontational t-shirts, occult curious literature, forays into horror film acting or just unsettling artwork based on disturbing themes, Dani Filth and cohorts appeared to be pushing boundaries between decadence and nihilism. However, to last a few decades in the fickle music industry takes endurance, and discipline. It is calculated, but musically powerful.
Cradle of Filth were last here in Australia in 2019, playing their 1998 classic album, Cruelty and the Beast in full. It is no surprise that they are returning to our shores following the 2023 live album release, Trouble & Their Double Lives, and the success of Existence Is Futile from 2021. As usual, the line up of Cradle of Filth continues to be mercurial, with new, classically trained keyboardist and female vocalist Zoë Marie Federoff, who is also the lead vocalist of symphonic metal band Catalyst Crime, recently joining the ranks, and contributing to the next Cradle of Filth album. We caught up with her before she boarded a plane for the tour.
HOT METAL: You’ve been in Cradle of Filth for a couple of years now. What were the challenges in getting up to speed with the material?
ZOE MARIE ZEDEROFF: “I would say that the initial challenge was that I had a month to prepare for my first tour with them. I don’t think anything’s ever going to be as high pressure as that ever again. So, nothing has been that difficult since, thank goodness. But, yeah, that would have been the worst part; that first month before the first tour.”
HM: Cradle of Filth has elements of black metal where some people might look at it as a keyboard wash or atmospherics, but in reality, there’s a lot going on, linked to the melodies.
ZF: “That’s what makes Cradle so special. What makes it such a standout band, within the genre for extreme bands are those big, theatrical keys. Or, you know, talking about Midian. You have what goes into symphonic, gothic metal as well. So, yeah, the keys are quite essential to Cradle.”
HM: Is it one of those things where when you come into it, you’ve got to be careful you don’t tread on anyone’s toes with the keyboard noises or overindulgence?
ZF: “Well, that’s really up to front of house, whoever’s mixing. I’m pretty sure that first tour I did with Cradle, I was mixed pretty low. I’m now mixed pretty high compared to then, which is all about getting up to speed.”
HM: You’ve contributed to a lot of other albums in the past in songwriting and lyrical editing. What’s your favourite thing to do as a guest spot?
ZF: “You know, my favourite thing to do, honestly, is to play live shows. I love playing live shows. I love writing songs and melodies. Touring with Cradle is a joy. Obviously, that’s my bread and butter. I also have my own band, Catalyst Crime, where I write songs, and we do some touring as well. So, I would say probably the live shows, and the writing is my favourite part.”
HM: I imagine with a band like Cradle, whatever you’re doing, including offering songwriting skills, it’s purely just a contribution.
ZF: :It is usually a collaboration. We’ve worked with one or two other members of the band, and myself on this upcoming album. It was a lot of Zoom sessions between myself, and Ashok [Marek ‘Ashok’ Šmerda] and Donny [Burbage], the guitarists. So, everyone kind of comes up with parts, such as, ‘here’s a keyboard melody that sounds really good,’ and ‘Well, here’s a riff that works for that.’ Then you kind of begin to sew them together into a vision, and of course, Dan [Filth] comes and sprinkles on his black metal magic at the end.”
HM: It’s funny how songwriting has changed now because of the pandemic. I guess, everything is via Zoom, right?
ZF: “Yeah. But, you know, frankly, it could have been Zoom before that as there’s a lot of international bands, and the Internet makes it so much easier to collaborate on this stuff.”
HM: For the music that you’ve added contributions, do songs sometimes turn out completely differently in the final mix, given the tyranny of distances?
ZF: “For this album, I’m really lucky because a lot of my ideas survived to the finish line. Pretty close to what I was thinking, but I’m sure won’t always be the case, yet for this album, it wasn’t so far away from the first point I added at, which was really cool, actually.”
HM: These days, would you say that the difference between death metal and black metal is probably keyboards? Is that what differentiates it, and gives the atmospherics?
ZF: “Not necessarily, because you have the Swedish melodic death revolution, with bands like Dark Tranquillity, which, of course, is quite keyboard heavy, despite being classified as death metal. Technically, I think black metal, though, like you said, is much more atmospheric in the use of keyboards, generally speaking, if it’s going to use keyboards at all. Thinking about another symphonic black metal band like Carach Angren, which kind of uses that big, theatrical orchestral sound at some points, like some of the recent Cradle albums. So, yeah, it really depends, because, again, there’s so many little subgenres going on for black and death here, and always some crossover.”
HM: My interests in progressive metal, and bands like Rush, leads me to recall way back in the eighties when they added synthesisers, to cop undue criticism. If you listen to it now, it holds up well, and that’s actually pretty cool.
ZF: “[Geddy Lee]’s playing it with his foot, and the bass and singing at the same time. How can you say no to any of that?”
HM: It just shows how people don’t necessarily think about construction of songs and the final product, I guess.
ZF: “There’s this elitism that is really present in metal that is kind of grating at times. It says, ‘we can’t be too pop, we can’t be too accessible.’ Well, pop is good. Pop gets stuck in your head with all of those synths and keyboard melodies. That is actually good for the song sometimes.”
HM: Agreed. We just had Amaranthe out here and they put on an incredible show. But what amazes me is how much grunt you can get out of a bass synth which can be so loud.
ZF: “That’s a very keyboard heavy band, for sure, and they pull it off beautifully. They’ve really cultivated a sound that makes people excited. I have nothing but respect for them.”
HM: It’s just interesting how even with a band like Prodigy, you don’t expect that you’re going to get that kind of bass push on the PA, that it’s really going to thump, but it does.
ZF: “Wait, it should, because, again, those are the melodies that you hum along to. I mean, I love a good riff as much as the next person, but you really can’t hum along to a good riff.”
HM: Why do you think that metal is still, in some ways, a man’s game, in a sense? It’s always trying to tell us that it’s open to the fairer sex, if you like, but in reality, if you look most tours, it’s a lot of testosterone.
ZF: “The shortest way I can answer this is that the emotions that metal presents, which are often interpreted as anger and aggression, are really just intensity at the end of the day. We still are kind of uncomfortable as a world, letting women express those emotions. The unfettered female rage is still something that really puts people off at times. I don’t think it should, but it does, and I think that’s a lot of the reason why you have a very male dominated genre as a whole. Now, it is getting better for sure, decade by decade, but as a whole, I think we still don’t really want to hear women being angry.”
HM: Whilst you get to sing in Cradle, how do you find it compares to being a lead vocalist in Catalyst Crime?
ZF: “Well, part of the reason that I keep that band as my side project is getting to vocally express myself in that way because like you said in Cradle, that very aggressive, angry, intense, emotive part of the vocals goes to Dan. I am there as the counterbalance, the Beauty and the Beast thing, as they say. So, my role in Cradle is different and I appreciate it very, very much, but I also need to keep my own project to be able to have that other vocal style going on.”
HM: I understand. Does it feel more like a duet with Cradle?
ZF: “Yeah, the female vocals in Cradle are there to provide these soft bits of energy that accentuate Dan even more. Of course, you have this dialogue going on with songs like “Nymphetamine” or “Ghost in the Fog”, and that dialogue makes Dan really pop out even more in what he’s trying to say and convey, be it grief, rage, or despair.”
HM: Did you ever have any concerns with some of the earlier lyrics of Cradle of Filth? It is sort of done in a way of theatrics but occasionally the odd line stands out.
ZF: “Art is something that’s very, very difficult to put limits on. I would also say, too, if you look at the early catalogue of a lot of bands, a lot of people had to mature and grow up. Dan himself has said in interviews that he would never wear the ‘Jesus is a Cunt’ t-shirt. These days, you know, everyone just kind of has to find themselves, and their sound, with what they’re trying to convey at a certain point in their life. So, I don’t think you can really judge a 20-year-old Daniel for having ideas that are all that different than any other 20-year-old had when fronting a band in this genre in the nineties.”
HM: Fair enough but a song title like “Gilded Cunt” springs to mind.
ZF: “I don’t know if it’s the same for Australia, but for the UK, c*nt is kind of a gender-neutral term. Yeah, the UK guys called men cunts as well.”
HM: Yeah, look, it gets dropped all the time. There are other ways of expressing things.
ZF: “Well, it is really difficult to put those kinds of limits on art.”
HM: What got you into keyboard playing initially, and particularly Roland keyboards?
ZF: “Well, actually, before I joined Cradle, I used the keyboard mainly as a songwriting tool, so I would use it to write vocal melodies and harmonies. So, transitioning from that to being a live keyboardist was a pretty big jump. But I also developed this whole new respect for the instrument that I didn’t have before because it wasn’t my main instrument on starting out.
It really just happened that I had a Roland keyboard available for that first tour and I got really familiar with them and I like them so, so much now. I can’t imagine switching. I’m really
comfortable because I have a Juno [Roland synthesiser] as well. My top keyboard is the FA-08 , that’s my main board. I’m told that Roland’s about to introduce a new Juno in the near future, and I can’t wait to get my hands on it.”
HM: It’s interesting watching some bands like Epica and Dream Theater, with how the keyboard becomes a feature in the show.
ZF: “Yeah. Well, I think that for Cradle, the keys never become quite that centre stage because it’s still more extreme than something like Epica. But it’s also fun, again, to get to show off a little bit, to get to really put some oomph into an instrument that, like I said a couple of years ago, I did not take as seriously as I take now.”
HM: Given you contributed to Vivaldi Metal Project by EpiClassica, did you study concertos and operas?
ZF: “I do have classical training back from my university days, which is, of course, a great foundation for healthy vocal technique on tour. I always tell people, ‘If you want to make your voice last through weeks of touring, you really need some classical training,’ just to provide that baseline.”
HM: Yeah, certainly. That’s one of the things with extreme metal, that many would probably wreck their voice if they are not careful.
ZF: “If their technique is good, they won’t. There’s actually a lot of similarities, I would say, between proper classical technique and proper screaming technique, in terms of
not putting the actual pressure on your vocal folds, and the sound in your resonance space, and the mask of your face. So, I think there are definitely singers that screwed up and fucked over their voices by doing it the wrong way. But then there’s other vocalists that have really played it straight the whole time, studied the proper technique and they can go on forever.”
HM: Would you say that with keyboards, you’ve got to have two sides of the brain contemplating what’s going on, to manage the left and right hands playing. It’s different to say guitar and bass because you’ve really only got one hand going, working worth muscle memory, if that makes sense. Is that right?
ZF: “I suppose so. I mean, I’ve never played guitar or bass. I’d like to learn guitar at some point. Yeah, I guess the bigger challenge for me upon joining Cradle was singing and playing the keys live; the splitting those two different directions, because that’s not a place that my brain had to go many places prior to joining Cradle. Usually, I was in the studio, writing some melody on the keys and then I would sing it afterwards. So, getting my brain to do both congruently, night after night, was definitely a challenge at first.”
HM: It makes sense that that’s an instrument to write on because you’ve got your bass line for the left hand and then you’ve got your melody, generally, for the right hand, so. Yeah, I understand that. But, for a guitarist, it’s this muscle memory thing where once your fingers work out where they’re going, your brain’s just telling you what’s happening. So, then people try to sing at the same time. That’s difficult.
ZF: “I can’t imagine. I mean, my Dad plays bass and sings at the same time and it always blows my mind how he can do that. The basic stringed instruments in general look way more complicated to me. Hopefully someday I’ll get a chance to try my hand at them.”
HM: The obvious question; how did your gig with Cradle of Filth come about?
ZF: “A month before the US tour in 2022, they needed a keyboardist. I’m eternally grateful for this; a friend of mine was engaged to Cradle’s previous tour manager, and they needed an American because of the US visa situation; she and her fiancé pitched me. I’ve been here ever since.”
HM: There have been some line up changes in the last few years.
ZF: “Well, you know, I had some big shoes to fill, and I recognised that. Lindsay Schoolcraft [whom Federoof replace] is a good friend of mine. Actually, she did my wedding, and then before her, there were many other great female vocalists and keyboardists in this band. It was a legendary vocalist, Sarah Jezebel Deva, who laid down vocals for so many of these classic tracks. So, it’s pretty big shoes to fill. I would say that each lineup added something unique and special. It’s a challenge to come in and do something that is uniquely me, but still play pays homage to what they did before me.”
HM: Is there a particular song in the set list that you enjoy playing and singing the most?
ZF: ““Saffron’s Curse” right now. I love that song. It’s so much fun.”
HM: Did it take you a while to get that down, or it’s just sort of natural to you?
ZF: “Oh, “Saffron’s curse”, I think I learned it in three or four days or so. I kind of have to break stuff up into sections because, you know, when I’m home, I’m also a mother, so, I don’t have so much practice time a day. But “Saffron’s Curse”, I got the hang of it, and it’s just so much fun because you have these little staccato parts going on and these bouncy keyboard parts. So, I love that song.”
HM: I gather when you rehearse, it’s in sections, as you say, because you’ve got to have your cues and your timing from when blast beats suddenly come in and then it goes into a keyboard section.
ZF: “You have so many non-traditional song structures going on in Cradle of Filth, so you’ve got to memorise where each section goes. But I try really hard to get some time in every day. You know, kid does homework, and I work on the set list.”
HM: So, has the entire band now gone into the digital age? There’s no real amps as such in your touring now?
ZF: “Yeah. I mean, for one thing, it’s very cost effective. It’s really tough to come overseas, especially to a place like Australia with big gear, so having the Neural DSPs, direct input boxes and stuff, I know for the guitarist that just saves them so much space and weight in terms of luggage.”
HM: Indeed. What were your musical influences when you started?
ZF: “Well, the first concert I ever went to, and you might appreciate this, is Rush, actually. My father took me, and I saw them three times [on the Snakes and Arrows Tour].”
HM: They never toured Australia.
ZF: “Sorry, but that got me to fall in love with live music, and before that, he’d already exposed me to rock and metal, so I grew up on Iron Maiden, Rush, Judas Priest, Fate’s Warning. So that was all stuff that he introduced me to, and I loved it. And then in the early two thousands when I was in middle school, I discovered women in this genre doing stuff like Nightwish, Epica and Within Temptation. That was a big moment for me because I thought, ‘Oh, wow, they’re not trying to be the boys. There’s still something distinctly feminine about what they’re doing in metal.’ That was so exciting for me. I pretty much knew from the time I was twelve, that this is the kind of music I want to do. Some of my best memories with my dad are seeing Rush. “Dreamline” from Roll the Bones, it’s a particularly special song to me and my Dad. It’s actually going to be our father and daughter dance at my wedding.”
HM: Really? I know the song, and Neil Peart’s lyrics are hilarious; ‘He’s got a roadmap of Jupiter,’ and all the rest of it. It’s just very funny, but also very insightful.
ZF: “I think you’d be hard pressed to find a better lyricist than that man. None of it was just mindless fluff, you know, there was nothing he ever wrote that was mindless fluff.”
HM: So does that appreciation for Rush feed into the lyricism or the lyrics that you might do for Cradle of Filth, by any chance?
ZF: “Well, Dani Filth does all the lyrics for cradle and he’s magnificent. I wouldn’t even begin to presume I could carry on with what he does because he’s very well read. Dan reads so much literature and poetry, and being well read feeds into his lyrics. So, you can make references to all these, you know, great themes and concepts and stories. Dan does that and he’s amazing at it.”
HM: Finally, is there a particular track of the entirety, the entire discography that you really gravitate towards?
ZF: “Not just enjoy playing live, but gravitate towards? Oh, that’s an interesting one. Yes, but nobody’s heard it yet.”
HM: Okay, I get what you’re saying.
ZF: “If you’re talking about the past, there would be so many. I could mention probably the entirety of the Midian album because, I listened to it in high school. So, I don’t know if it’s cheating to say this, but my favourite Cradle of Filth track has not been released yet. People are going to hear it soon and I’m very excited.”
