by PAUL SOUTHWELL
WINGER is the shining example of a band whose love of playing music over chasing pots of gold at the end of the rainbow within the fickle music industry hit machine, has allowed their reunion to be a successful venture. Screaming up the pop metal charts of the day, back in 1988, with their major label debut, Winger’s musical prowess was immediately evident, fronted by classically trained bassist Kip Winger, who was already known for his tenure with Alice Cooper, as was keyboardist Paul Taylor.
Guitarist Reb Beach was also key to Winger’s success, a guitarist who could be seen as the east coast version of Steve Lukather and was active in the session musician scene, playing for some big hitting artists. Adding Dixie Dregs drummer Rod Morgenstein was the final ingredient to make the New York city based band a serious contender for a slew of awards, album sales, and magazine covers of the day, once MTV took them under their wing.
After two platinum albums, touring musician John Roth joined Winger, replacing Paul Taylor on rhythm guitar. Then the music industry shifted gears so dramatically that studied musicianship was seen as a hindrance, and when Winger were associated with an outsider character in the obnoxious and lowest common denominator animated MTV show, and that resulted in the temporary demise of Winger, disbanding indefinitely with band members splintering into over decent and sometime high profile gigs within the industry.
It was not until 2006 that a new album, following some reunion tours, led to their fourth album IV, once Winger’s schedules with other career commitments allowed the band to do more than a run of shows. Many years later, the original lineup, complemented by Roth, was intact, leading to their seventh album, titled, strikingly similar to Toto’s discography in name only, Seven, in 2023. But Kip Winger, not being one to rest on his laurels, has decided to saw farewell to Winger, and pursue a career in the classical music world, with his works already scheduled to be performed and conducted formally. We caught up with Reb Beach to discuss the final tour of Winger to Australia.
HOT METAL: You are coming back down to Australia, this time with Winger. I believe that the last time you might have been here was just before the pandemic, playing in Whitesnake, co-headlining with Scorpions.
REB BEACH: “Yeah, that’s right.”
HM: So, is this a farewell tour, definitely, and not like when Kiss announced their farewell?
RB: “Oh, no, no, no, it’s Kip and he is a different drummer, and I don’t mean he’s looking for another drummer for Winger. He wants to chase a classical music career, and it’s what he’s wanted to do for years. Singing this stuff is really hard for him. He gets embarrassed when he doesn’t hit the notes. But it’s so rare that he ever sings a bad note. It’s kind of hard for me thought. The other guys have enough money for the rest of their lives and, you know, our drummer, Rod Morgenstein is 71 years old, about to be 72 years old. He doesn’t need to do this anymore. I’m the one who would love to keep going on another 10 years because they’re all my best friends and it’s my favourite band to be in, but there are a million things I can do, and I’m already getting calls for other stuff. As far as Winger being done forever, Kip says never say never. So, if somebody offers Kip a tonne of money to do a festival… I don’t think he’ll do a full tour, because when you do a full tour with Winger, you’re in a van and you’re leaving at six AM in the morning. Your flight leaves at six AM in the morning; it’s brutal travel to play the kinds of places that we play and at our age, they don’t really need to do that anymore. It’s really hard work, even though it’s so fun. I mean, I’m hoping that Kip’s going to miss it when he’s doing his classical thing, and we’ll do something. But you definitely won’t see that in Australia, Japan or Europe. We couldn’t get arrested in Europe.”
HM: It’s weird how that works. I was curious about working with bands like Whitesnake versus Winger, as to how much freedom you have, because I guess you’re coming into a known situation, and the expectation is you’re going to play Vai’s solos similarly?
RB: “There was nothing to cope with, there were no problems. Doug [Aldrich] was already in the band. Doug was chosen before me and he was the obvious [John] Sykes guy, and I was the obvious Steve Vai guy. So, I got the bluesy solos, and he got the Sykes solos. Unfortunately, when it came time to divvy up the solos, Aldrich got all the cool solos. But that changed as time went by and he did all the writing. I joined 22 years ago, and it was kind of his baby for those first years with Whitesnake. So, I was just kind of like a tag along guy because I wasn’t writing whilst Doug was music director. So, there was really zero pressure on me.”
HM: When you come into being live session player are you able to just do play what you like or do people expect you to play the solos exactly?
RB: “There was that kind of pressure in Dokken before. That was the band I was in before Whitesnake that I did two records with, and that was pressure for sure. So, I just played the solos, the same notes, but kind of with my own style. So, I would tap stuff with the same notes that he [George Lynch] played. I was received really well because George never played the solos from the record when he played live. So, for the first time the Dokken fans were hearing the solos live and they, they liked that. Although the first night I did get a giant sneaker in my face with some guy screaming, ‘Where’s George?’”
HM: Lovely. Do you take a similar approach with Winger’s material in that you improvise solos, or do you try to replicate the solos from the recordings?
RB: “I’ll tell you what. I saw Lynyrd Skynyrd, back in the day, when they were all the members, Gary Rossington and all the guys, and they played the solos from the record. When they would start the solo, people would cheer, and when they kept on playing the exact solo from the record, people would go nuts and start singing along with the solo. I always thought that was so cool. So, in a song like “Headed for Heartbreak”, I play the solo from the record. In a song like “Seventeen”, if it’s a single, I’ll play the solo from the record. That’s what people want to hear. They don’t want you going out and doing “Jazz Odyssey” over a song they’ve heard a million times. There are places in the Winger set for improvisation, and I do it. But there’s no pressure with Winger because I write all the songs. I write the songs with Kip.”
HM: How do you feel about the material in Seven now that you’ve been able to play it live?
RB: “Well, funny you should ask. We don’t play it live because it’s too hard. There’s no way. The vocals are so high that Kip cannot sing it. Well, we do “Proud Desperado” because it’s a single, but I’m not crazy about playing that song. It’s hard to recreate live. It’s kind of like this Euro chant song. I like the song, but it’s not my favourite to play live because it’s tuned down. So, I need to rent a guitar to tune down to that because I can only bring one guitar on the plane because it’s too freaking expensive to bring another guitar. If I did bring another guitar, I’d leave it in the bar,
probably. Oh, we also do “Stick the Knife in and Twist”.”
HM: “Proud Desperado” is an interesting one because that was co-written with Desmond Child.
RB: “He wrote some lyrics. Kip and I wrote the riff, wrote all the music, and then he came in and wrote some lyrics with Kip.”
HM: So, was that the same thing with Dan Huff on “Pull Me Under”, from Karma?
RB: “No, no. Dan Huff is the guy who is the art director.”
HM: I was looking at that credit wondering if it was Dan Huff, Nashville session guitarist on it. That’d be cool.
RB: “No, Dann’s a really nice guy. I’ve known him for a long time. I haven’t seen him in a long time, but he’s always been a killer player, a nice guy.”
HM: Well, that reminds me. I remember reading your Guitar World magazine columns back in the late eighties. It was interesting to see your columns because you talk about other players’ techniques that influenced you from players such as Dann Huff and Joe Satriani, whereas most of the other columns would be, ‘this is how you play my solo.’
RB: “Yeah, well, I was a kid. I was probably 28 years old when I wrote those.”
HM: True but that’s educational in the sense that you’re imparting your knowledge having been to Berklee College of Music.
RB: “Do I enjoy imparting my knowledge to other people? Giving lessons is not my favourite thing to do. But I do get enjoyment out of it when I show somebody something that blows their mind, and that changes their [musical] life. I remember when a guy showed me that one riff that Chuck Berry plays [hums unison riff] and that changed my life from that. I took it so far from just that one riff. So, I get a lot of enjoyment out of that. But I went to Berklee, but I don’t read music. I don’t read a note of music. I taught myself how to play. Berklee wasn’t for me. It was all jazz at that time, and they basically told me that I would never make it in the music business because I tapped. I was finger tapping, and they said, ‘Don’t do that’. I was holding the pick wrong, and I was sitting wrong, and that’s when I got in the car and drove away. Now, of course, you can play whatever you want. They’re all about rock now, and whatever you’re into, but I did learn a lot there because I jammed with tonnes of musicians every night, you know, all different styles from all around the world. I learned about reggae, and I learned a lot from the experience.”
HM: That is amusing that they said that you weren’t going to make it because of finger tapping, when you look at somebody like Stanley Jordan. That’s some serious tapping.
RB: “Exactly but he was a jazz guy, you know, he could play anything with that thing. I was just doing pentatonic scales. I remember the teacher saying to me, ‘You’ll never make as much money as I do.’ Three years later, I was on the cover of Berklee’s graduate magazine [Berklee Today] when I only went for two semesters.”
HM: That’s hilarious. So, how’s your songwriting approach changed, with Kip? Or has it always been the same?
RB: “It’s always been the same; exactly the same. I come up with a riff, and then he tells me what key to go to, and then I come up with another riff, and then he tells me what key to go to, and then I come up with another riff, and then we have a song. He’ll just sing over it, and we’re done.”
HM: So, when do you think about, I guess, the arrangements? Do you just wait until you’re in the studio when you decide to say layer in a 12-string acoustic figure?
RB: “That’s Kip, and Kip’s an arranger. That’s what he studied. He studied at Juilliard School [with Ivan Galamian]. That’s one of his great fortes; I can play a riff, and he can hear the whole song. He can say, ‘Just play something cool in the key of C now’, and I’ll do it because I’m really good at just coming up with guitar riffs at the top of my head. It’s kind of what I’m known for and I’m not tooting my own horn because I suck at everything else, but I am really good at coming up with the guitar riffs. Thank you, Lord.”
HM: Do you think that that’s kind of the key to your success in the same way that say Zakk Wylde does a similar thing; he sets aside time to discovers riffs.
RB: “Yeah, it’s important. There’s so much music that it’s just chords. It’s just strummed chords, and if you’re going play guitar rock, I like to have a badass riff. There’s something about it that sets it apart from a song that’s just kind of G, C and D chords.”
HM: In in that light, you obviously gravitate towards a good, heavy riff. Have you ever steered away from the Ibanez guitars and gotten into more like a Gretsch Falcon or something or a Les Paul, to get that heavy grunt?
RB: “Yeah, but it’s a pain in the ass. I hate it. I wouldn’t do it unless I had to, and Jeff Pilson makes me play a Les Paul on one side. I’m just not a Les Paul guy. I’ll play another guitar if it adds a different sound that we need, like a thinner sound maybe for a guitar line that’s up top for a melody, it might cut more, but, you know, they don’t stay in tune. I have a Les Paul that has a Floyd Rose on it and that does stay in tune. So, I shipped that to Pilson, and he still has it. Now I use that on Black Swan, and it definitely helped, but I’m just not a Les Paul guy. I’m a total Strat guy.”
HM: Fair enough. I guess some people might argue it’s sacrilege to put a locking system on a Les Paul guitar.
RB: “And I agree. I mean, it is if you really are into that Les Paul sound and everything, but if you’re playing through a freaking Marshall on 10 with a bunch of gain on it, it ain’t going to make a bit of difference.”
HM: That certainly makes sense. So, in that regard, have you embraced digital technology, or is it something that you just prefer playing straight through an amplifier, and effects?
RB: “No, I haven’t embraced it. I think it’s a great idea, and it gets better all the time, but they still haven’t done it [perfectly], and who knows if they will? They keep getting closer, and it’s really, really good. All the guys in Winger do it except me, and I’m sure one day, you know, five years from now, I probably will do it, too, because renting an amp is hit or miss, and those guys bring their own little power. So, those guys bring their own little amp, like a handheld amplifier and their little Line-6 or whatever it is thing with all the sounds in it. So, it’s just two little things that you hold in each hand, and they go in their bag, and they have the same exact sound every night. And my sound is just, ’Good luck. Let’s hope it’s a good amp.’ Eight times out of ten, it’s usable.”
HM: That’s the risk you’re taking but you’re getting the sound that you want. Fair enough.
RB: “It’s fatter. You can’t compare. Look, I have direct stuff in my studio here and I’ll plug it in, and I’ll play it and then I’ll plug my Marshall in. Well, right now it’s actually my Custom Audio [CA Electronics OD100 Amp] in, and it’s night and day. It’s so much bigger and fatter. It’s ridiculous. It just eats it like it’s a tiny little puppy. That’s how it is right now. That could change.”
HM: When you were doing session work, did they have amps for you, or did you have to lug all your gear?
RB: “S.I.R. [Studio Instrument Rentals], baby. I worked so much that they had an amp that was just mine at Sir. They just saved it for me, had my name on it.”
HM: That’s pretty cool. I guess you’ve spoken to Steve Lukather and shared experiences?
RB: “Sure, yeah. I did drugs with Steve Lukather 30 years ago.”
HM: You’ve got a similar sense of humour to some degree, which is probably what gets you through, I suppose.
RB: “He’s a great, great, great guy. He’s so humble and such a fabulous guitar player. When I saw him at The Baked Potato, he said, ‘Ladies and gentlemen, Red beach is sitting over there.’ Oh my God, I couldn’t believe it. It was a great, and I went to his house and hung out with him. I recently saw the latest Toto tour just last year and they sound like a record, it is insane. Winger is kind of like Toto but we’re not as good as Toto. Nobody’s as good as Toto, but it’s kind of that vein. It’s a little heavier than Toto. But you got all those world class musicians in the band. That’s kind of what makes Winger cool and makes us a little bit of a step above some of the other bands from the era.”
HM: When Pull was released, I the music industry had already changed quite substantially. But then Winger copped some flak from a ridiculous cartoon character, amongst other things . How do you just persevere, knowing you’ve got good material. How do you deal with the music industry treating you like dirt?
RB: “We broke up. I lost my house and all my guitars. What do you think? That’s what happened. That was it. It wasn’t just us; it was all of those bands. There’s only a couple of them that persevered, like Bon Jovi. They were much bigger than us. Even Mr. Big was history for those years, you know. Everybody took a hit, and it was a horrible, dark time. I mean, we had to cancel the tour. In the middle of the tour, that Beavis and Butthead episode came out and somebody came to our bus and had a VHS of it that they recorded at their house the week before. We put it in, and we went, ‘Oh, no,’ and then ticket sales just stopped.”
HM: Wow, that’s rough.
RB: “That was it. Album sales stopped; ticket sales stopped. MTV is the one who made us. The only reason that we even got on MTV was because Rod [Morgenstein] knew one of the big guys there and got us one play at 1:55am in the morning on a Saturday night on Headbangers Ball, and from that one play, we started getting requests at radio, and that’s what happened. But then they released Beavis and Butthead three years later, and overnight we were done.”
HM: Today you’ve got social media, which potentially could be even worse for a band?
RB: “Here’s the thing, anyone that sees Winger live thinks it’s great. I see the people in the audience, and they’re all really, really digging it, and that makes me happy, you know? People that say bad things about Winger, such as, ‘Winger, they’re stupid, they have big hair, and they’re a big poser band from the 80’s.’ It’s all, ‘No, no, no. It’s just musicians who have been around forever, the songs are really good, and we all sing our asses off. Winger is a very, very good band, and so we developed quite a following in America, which is why I’m a little bummed that Kip wants to end it now, you know?”
HM: I can imagine. I saw Winger with Ratt in Australia in late 2007 and that was fantastic. It was a great show.
RB: “Was it with John Roth?”
HM: John Roth was in the band, yeah.
RB: “Well, now we have Paul Taylor back, the original keyboard player.”
HM: Yeah, I was going to ask you how the current lineup works in that way.
RB: “So, with Johnny Roth, that’s really kind of the main band, and he joined in 1993. Paul Taylor gets massive keyboard sounds and is a super talented guy. He also sings, so it makes our harmonies, you know, four-part harmonies. So, really the way to see the band is with Paul Taylor and John Roth. And so that’s what we’re doing in Australia, and I think the people are really going to like it.”
HM: Finally, are you planning on bringing a rendition of Hendrix’ “Purple Haze” into your set list for the tour?
RB: “Ha, in my opinion, that’s the worst thing we’ve ever recorded. It’s the most embarrassing thing I’ve ever recorded in my life.”
HM: Dweezil Zappa was on it too, wasn’t he?
RB: “I am so ashamed that Beau Hill, who was famous for mixing guitar players low, as in way too low. Beau, what were you thinking? Those guitar mixes are like a fly, just like Warren DeMartini’s guitars. You can barely hear them. Yeah, so sorry, Dweezil. I always felt bad about that. I think I told him once, that, ‘Man, I felt really bad about how Hill mixed your solo,’ and Zappa did some cool stuff. He had a ring on, and he used his ring. I’d never seen anyone do that. That was Kip’s idea, and I really hated it. I’ve always hated it. I told him I hated it, and he insisted it be on there because he thought the riff was cool. Sorry, I just don’t but some people actually love that song. Some will say, ‘No, Reb, that’s the best song on the record,’ well, to each his own.”
HM: Thank you very much for having a chat to us. We’ll see you on tour very soon.
RB: “Great, Paul. Thanks a lot. See ya.”
APRIL 4: 170 Russell, Melbourne
APRIL 5: Manning Bar, Sydney
APRIL 6: The Gov, Adelaide
APRIL 8: Princess Theatre, Brisbane
APRIL 10: Magnet House, Perth
